Re: Mono-ii is not actually mono-ii?

[Achim Pawelczyk <achimp@herten.de>]

At 13:28 01.08.99 +0100, Syd Hoare wrote:

>Your Japanese speaking correspondents have made it pretty clear that it is
as I
>suggested - namely that at objection is made and a conference follows. I
suppose
>the word monoii and its incorrect  translation(pow-wow) etc roll off the
tongue
>easily and make a nice little hook for TV commentators.  It is also easy
to see
>how any Japanese would not have picked up the incorrect usage among English
>speakers........"it's a monoii....." they would interpret that as "there has
>been an objection...." which of course there would have been.  So
hopefully this
>one has been laid to rest.

I usually don't listen to the English subchannels, thus I still don't get
the problem.
Using single Japanese terms in English comments on sumo in any case will
never carry the same meaning as in Japanese.
Avoiding wrong translations is one thing, but I think another wrong
impression can occur.

Mono-ii is a term which anybody, Japanese included, easily connects  with
sumo (though a natural Japanese word as well). Kyogi is a more general
Japanese word no one would connect with sumo - used by the explaining
shimpan - and the commentators  when repeating his same words.
In this case it has to be "kyogi no kekka" of course (result of the
conference) not "mono-ii no kekka" (result of the objection).

That still doesn't make "kyogi" a word feasible to use in English. With the
same argument you would have to use "shio" instead of salt when talking
about the rikishi throwing it around - the salt in sumo being something
very special.

If an objection in court occurs, what is the objection: shouting
"objection" or explaining what to object about ?
Isn't this rather the "explanation" ?

When referring to the bout where a mono-ii occured, often used are the
words "mono-ii no sue": Finally after a mono-ii - the bout was repeated/the
decision was reversed/confirmed.

In my view, "mono-ii" as a sumo term can include all stages: raising the
hand (te o ageru), meeting on the dohyo (dohyo ni atsumaru), conference
(kyogi), explanation (setsumei).


As to accents on vowels:
The one mistake most difficult to get rid of when speaking Japanese is to
pronounce words emphasized, like if they had an accent attached.
Accents have their defined use in other languages - but in Japanese you
won't noticeably emphasize syllables.

The best way to train correct Japanese is to speak it all in one tone -
with prolonged vowels where they belong.

Marking the prolonged vowels with accents is a help, but can lead to
another wrong impression.
Lacking the correct sign on the net, marking the vowels with carets is a
safer way.

Different rules of course if you want to sing the names like the yobidashi
or gyoji - but in this case, no marks can help.

Akinomaki

-- achimp@herten.de (also for Japanese including Kanji)
-- http://home.t-online.de/home/achimp/sumoe.htm
-- a chimp at home