Re: Takanohana and the playoffs

[lightsms@texas.net]

Szalkai Wrote:

>If they had to fight each other and Taka would still be as great as today
then Waka and Nami would have worse records (yes, one or two losses more in
a basho

I totally disagree about the fact that Nohana would be as great as today,
point being is he hasn't won against his Ozeki mates as of yet.  (Could it
be he gave it to them?)  and what about Takatoriki, I think he could beat
Nohana as well.  I still think that if the Association keeps no same heya
matches, that its always going to be one sided until the experience goes
away and new blood hit the sceen.  

>> This is just because no matter how great Taka and Waka are (which
>they are, undoubtedly)

How can you justify they are undoubtedlt great these two are?
	Clearily they don't fight the top ranks like you said eariler.  (Except
Ake, Maru)  and look at Waka's record this basho and the record of Maru.  I
see Maru far above Waka.  

I agree that Akebono has the toughest schedule of all Rikishi.  And I think
all ozeki and Yoko, should have to wrestle everyone to show they are indeed
the best of the best.  Not wrestling the top ranks because of same heya is
indeed a unfair advantage for the bigger heyas!  and how can you say Taka
is the best Rikishi in Sumo.  Tell me who he fights besides Ake, Maru?

My three cents!

Scott Light
Masanohiro

P.S.  Personally I like Dejima,Chiyotaiki, Kaio, and of course Maru and Ake! 

At 03:39 AM 11/24/97 +0900, you wrote:
>On Sat, Nov 22, 1997 at 08:03:59PM -0500, Charles Beauchamp wrote:
>> Let's see now.  The routine argument that I always press is that
>> Takanohana get's an advantage towards yusho because of schedule. 
>> Usually that argument is greeted with replies that he beats Ake and Maru
>> regularly enough that it makes no difference.  
>
>Let's think about it logically.  Now Taka, Waka and Henka(nonami) do not
>fight each other in a hon-basho.  Instead, they fight two hapless
>mid-maegashira, say Ganyu and Kotoinazuma, which is two automatic wins for
>each of them (no matter how much I like Kotoinazuma).  If they had to fight
>each other, then because of the simple fact that in a bout there is exactly
>one winner and one loser, there are two possible outcomes.  Either one of
>them beats the other two, then instead of 2 wins each, one of them would
>have 2 wins, one of them 1 win and 1 loss and the third of them 2 losses. Or
>they beat each other around, that is, all of them have 1 win and 1 loss.
>Again, this is just because no matter how great Taka and Waka are (which
>they are, undoubtedly), if they faced each other in a bout, one of them
>would have to lose, instead of both beating Ganyu.  This would mean either
>much less yusho for Little Brother, or somewhat worse records for Big
>Brother, or Henka losing his ozeki rank now and then.
>
>So what I am trying to say that you have to view them together (and if you
>throw Takatoriki and Akinoshima into this, it gets worse for them).  If they
>had to fight each other and Taka would still be as great as today then Waka
>and Nami would have worse records (yes, one or two losses more in a basho
>can make a huge difference).  Or if the ozeki were as good as today, Taka
>could not be a dai-yokozuna.
>
>> How about this though.  He is now 0-3 lifetime against the two Ozeki in
>> his stable.  Ya, small sample size...and maybe the first two were
>> giveaways back in 95.
>
>They showed the '96 Hatsu Basho playoff between Taka and 'Nami.  I don't
>think it was a giveaway, both of them really seemed to fight for his life,
>and the winning kawazugake is probably not the best choice in a giveaway
>match, it needs quite some acting talent to fake it, I think. However, I
>definitely think today's bout was a giveaway (though it might not have been,
>of course).  Let me describe it as I have seen it.  Takanonami starts with
>huge bandages on both his legs.  Takanohana immediately grabs 'Nami's
>mawashi with a morozashi grip.  Isn't it usually deadly from Takanohana?
>Then they rest for a second, and without any further ado, Takanonami turns
>for an uwatenage (don't imagine any great speed here), and, magically,
>throws Takanohana, who I have never seen nearly this off-balance (I could
>describe him as jumping over Takanonami's legs).  Either Taka had the worst
>bout of his carreer, or something is suspicious (he did not seem to be
>injured). Of course, he owed this win to Takanonami, for both the Haru basho
>(beating the co-leader, Maru on senshuraku) and the Aki basho (beating the
>leader, Maru on senshuraku).
>
>> But one must wonder if he faced the same schedule
>> as Maru (who has the single toughest schedule in the top division
>> lately) would he even have 10 yusho?
>
>Why do you say Maru has the toughest schedule?  Akebono has to face
>everybody Maru has to in the upper ranks (except himself -- he faces Maru
>instead :), AND Dejima and Musoyama.
>
>Akos
>
>