RE: RE: [sumo] kaio chances

[Robert Hovestadt <Robert_Hovestadt@finance.neu.edu>]

Hi All,
	I do not disagree with the parllel being drawn by Thierry, but there
is one major difference.  In the case of Sumo the Yokozuna can not avoid
battling each other.  IMO a champion who refuses a match against the very
best challenger is not a champion and should not be so recognized.
Obviously in Chess [at the time you speak of] the individuals were not
necessarily top class individuals, only top notch players.

Bob Hovestadt
-----Original Message-----
From: thierry.perran@club-internet.fr
[mailto:thierry.perran@club-internet.fr]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 6:16 AM
To: sumo@statgen.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: RE: [sumo] kaio chances


Hi list,

First of all, as lots of people do, I really enjoy this debate on Kaio's
chance to get a promotion to yokozuna. 

In my opinion, 5 yusho is already a yokozuna career. In modern times, no
ozeki ever won 4 yusho wihtout being promoted afterwards, so Kaio is already
way ahead of all other ozeki. Knowing that he beat Asashoryu on senshuraku
on two consecutive basho, this great performance, that very few rikishi will
able to achieve, should have compensated the extra win, officially needed to
get the promotion. This is my feeling. 

I am rather against the idea of promoting automatically ozeki with 5 yusho,
as yokozuna is always under pressure and a yokozuna candidate has to tell us
he can stand pressure and perform well.

All of this interesting discussion is generating by this unwritten yokozuna
promotion system. For a lot of reasons, this looks unfair to some rikishi,
like Kaio right now. But I just want to make a parallel to another sport
world (yes it is !), the chess world. We had exactely the same problem, I
mean the opaque way to choose the chess world champion. Untill World war
two, there was absolutely no rule to set a chess world championship. When
someone found a way to be considered as the chess world champion,
he simply chose a challenger, who put money on the table, to defend his
title. This is quite unfair, as, most of the time, the champion avoid to
fight a too talented challenger. Some great match-ups never happened and
will be missed forever. In case the challenger won, he may never give a
revenge match to the former champion. This is exaxtely what Alexander
Alekhine did to Jose Luis Capablanca in his lifetime.

So, the unwritten chess world champion system was horrible, unfair, and
quite shocking. But, when you look at the chess history through a global
view, you just realize that only the very best chess players found their way
through this opacity to reach the chess world champion title. Top class
chess players with unique skills got eventually to the crown. This unfair
system was not that bad, quite shocking isn'it !  

I've got the same feeling for the yokozuna promotion system. It looks
terrible, opaque and unfair at some points of history (like today) but when
you take a few steps backwards, you realize it is still accurate to detect
and to highlight only the very top class individuals !

Sorry for this off-topic,

Best regards from Paris,
Thierry aka Chienoshima 


----Message d'origine----
>De: "Patrick" <pbal@netpci.com>
>A: <sumo@statgen.ncsu.edu>
>Sujet: RE: [sumo] kaio chances
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:48:02 +1000
>
> 
>As much as I like Kaio as an Ozeki, and he is better than he thinks he is,
I
>do not see him as upholding the rank of Yokozuna.
>Would he have been promoted to Yokozuna after his last performance, I have
a
>feeling he would have wound up like Wakanohana. Instead of being remembered
>as a great Ozeki he would be forgotten as a Yokozuna.
>Kaio consistently chokes when the line is drawn in the sand, and he has to
>come up with the win.
>If you are going to be a Yokozuna (not a Dai-Yokozuna), you should be able
>to win, regardless of who you are fighting.
>His skills and strength are Yokozuna level, his mental state is only Ozeki.
>I predict Kaio zeki will only get  10-11 wins next basho.
>I hope he proves me wrong.
>Kaio gambare!
>
>(shield ON)
>
>Patrick B.
>
>
>[EndPost by "Patrick" <pbal@netpci.com>]
>
>


[EndPost by thierry.perran@club-internet.fr]
[EndPost by Robert Hovestadt <Robert_Hovestadt@finance.neu.edu>]