Re: [sumo] SPOILERS - Asashoryu-Kotonowaka Question

[Alex Ferguson <abf@cs.ucc.ie>]

On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 10:58:05AM +0200, Paolo Viel wrote:
> 4. Somebody advised me to see the Kimarite description of
> okuritsuridashi. But it says that the attacker can cross the edge with
> one foot without losing "because both feets of the defender are in the
> air". That can easily be understood, but if this is a case of "dead
> body" it cannot be considered similar to what happened in
> Asashoryu-Kotonowaka....

Different "special case", as I understand it.


> 5. Somebody wrote more or less that the same happens when somebody is
> thrown in the air out of the dohyo.  Here I do not understand at all:
> we have seen many and many cases when a rikishi is in fly well outside
> the tawara with absolutely no chance of flying back inside (ahahah...)
> and his opponent loses because he touches the ground.  So what has
> that to do with the "dead body" ?

Here's my understanding, somewhat painfully won as it is, and explicitly
provisional until someone explains it to me differently.  It gets into a
more-or-less subjective judgement here as to whether one wrestler has
perpetrated an authentic throw/technque on the other (to a greater or
lesser extent...), and still has his own centre after doing so (again,
to a greater or lesser...).  In such situations, the throwee can be
ruled to be shinitai, and the thrower ikitai, on the grounds of this
greater degree of balance.  Josh described the criteria for making such
a judgement in an earlier post, I believe, on the basis of the body
positions of each rikishi.

If both are falling completely out of control, then we're indeed back to
the simple "race condition" -- first one to touch down/out, loses.

Cheers,
Alex.
[EndPost by Alex Ferguson <abf@cs.ucc.ie>]