>>I haven't suscribed yet to Sumo World. And
from what I hear from the ML, I
>>probably won't. But I really would love to
receive a good Sumo magazine,
>>with as many informations as possible. So I
think Josh had a great point
>>proposing a campaign to convince people like
Ozumo to make an
>>English version of their magazine. We are
enough to prove them this
>>would be good for their benefits (which is, I
fear, the only way to really
>>convince them...). And the fact that most of
us suscribe to a magazine
>>(sumo world) that we find not so good should
be a good argument to
>>prove them that we REALLY want a sumo magazine.
I still think organizing some kind of campaign
asking Yomiuri or NHK to put out an English
magazine would be a good idea. But there is a
problem of demonstrating the target market. We
could show them how many members the list has,
but I doubt Clyde would let us have a copy of
the subscribers' list to Sumo World, which would
really make our case. In any event, having only
one place to go for English language info is not
ideal. Even if Yomiuri or NHK did agree to put
out a magazine, I don't think anything would be
lost by having a website as well. A website can
do things a magazine can't and vice-versa.
>>1- making such a web site, or web-zine, will
make it necessary to create a
>>kind "sumo writers for the web site mailing
list". I'm new in the sumo ML,
>>but I love all the informations I receive
through it. And I fear that creating
>>such a "second mailing list" will stop a lot
of informations from being but
>>on the sumo ML. OK, everybody will still
receive them on the new web site,
>>but I think that really wouldn't be the same
than the ML...
> I don't think it would stop anything. What
> such a sumo web-zine would primarily do is to
> at one place collect interesting info that,
> possibly most of it, already have been sent to
> the ML. This does not lessen the value of the
> ML, but would also enable people NOT on the ML
> to take part of this information. The people
> who provide this info would hardly stop
> getting it to the Sumo ML, if they still
> collected it at all.
I agree with all Stefan wrote and add this: as I
see it, the seperate list would contain NO sumo
information. It would basically be messages
like, "Stefan, I need you to fact-check my
article by such-and-such date," and "Moti, how
about doing a showcase of the young European
rikishi in the lower ranks for your next
column?" Purely planning messages and notes
that would clutter up the main ML. And it
wouldn't be exclusive, either. Anyone who
wanted to "listen in" as it were would be
welcome to, although I don't think the other ML
would have any interesting info...
>>2- doing a web site (or a webzine) will
necessite us to choose what will be
>>put in it... I think we don't all want the
same kind of informations about
>>sumo. And I don't want us to start arguing
against each others about what
>>should be put in the web site, or what sould
be written BIG or small, etc. I
>>really fear that doing this will only make us
argue against each others...
> I agree with Josh that this kind of
> discussions should rather be held on a
> seperate mailing list, since it's part of
> the "behind-the-scenes" of such a web
> magazine. But this is of course ALWAYS a
> problem. I can't see it should prevent us from
> trying though.
I foresee little argument. As a web-based
entity, one of the advantages is that there will
be little need for editorial restrictions. For
the most part, those writing columns will have
independence with regards to their subjects.
Contributions can be freely accepted without
worry for magazine size or space. Really the
only restrictions I can imagine would be on
content. Only articles that were not reasonably
on topic would be rejected.
As for details, well, as the person attempting
to set things in motion, I've more or less taken
up the mantle of Editor-in-Chief. Which means
ultimate decision making, and thus
responsibility would come through me. I think
Jezz Sterling's work running the Bench Sumo game
would be an excellent guide. When an argument
comes up on Bench Sumo, Jezz listens to all the
sides, weighs heavily the opinions of those who
have special knowledge (in the realm of
automation and technology, for example) and then
he makes his decision. Really, it's the
smoothness with which Bench Sumo runs that made
me think that we could really do this. A great
number of people collaborate on Bench Sumo with
no problem.
>>3- imagine we don't like the web site (or the
webzine)... Do we really want
>>us to start talking of "the people doing the
site" the way we talked about
>>Clyde for the last week ? I surely don't want
it. But I fear this will probably
>>be the case, one day or another...
> But this is not only to the bad. One of the
> greatest irritation people have had with Clyde
> is that he doesn't answer e-mail, and doesn't
> seem to hear critique at all. With people on
> the mailing list responsible, that problem
> should more or less disappear, since most
> mailing list participants should be ready to
> discuss critique against their work (well,
> hopefully at least...). This discussion is
> PART of possible success for the format, and
> not something working against it.
Again, I agree with Stefan. In terms of
feedback and criticism, I'd like to keep in mind
Michael Westbay's www.japanesebaseball.com
website. Michael's idea was to create an
English language information and news
clearinghouse for Japanese Baseball. The site
is moderated, but allows for anyone who agrees
or disagrees with an article on the site to give
the author immediate feedback. This mailing
list already takes care of that function. Any
contributors would be hoping for feedback, and
this would be the perfect place to do it.
I'll be honest. Probably the main reason I'm
pushing this is because I write too much. :-)
I've always read Japanese sumo magazines rather
than English ones, so I don't necessarily need
an English language alternative to Sumo World.
But, I tend to write looooong messages, and I
think it'd probably be better to put those in
article form on a website rather than drop 180-
line messages into everyone's Inbox! :-)
Sumo World has co-existed with this ML for quite
some time, and both have benefitted from it:
Sumo World got free word of mouth and thus won
subscribers. Sumo World provided a lot of
langauge for English speaking sumo fans, and
thus contributed to the health of this ML. Any
website/webzine would strive for a similar
symbiosis. It would be there only to supplement
the list, not take from it.
Take care,
Josh Reyer
If a first you don't know what to do... henka
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