Re: Re: Oshi-dashi'd message

["Josh Reyer" <Reyer@benchsumo.zzn.com>]

>>I haven't suscribed yet to Sumo World. And 
 from what I hear from the ML, I
>>probably won't. But I really would love to 
receive a good Sumo magazine,
>>with as many informations as possible. So I 
think Josh had a great point
>>proposing a campaign to convince people like 
Ozumo to make an
>>English version of their magazine. We are 
enough to prove them this
>>would be good for their benefits (which is, I 
fear, the only way to really
>>convince them...). And the fact that most of 
us suscribe to a magazine
>>(sumo world) that we find not so good should 
be a good argument to
>>prove them that we REALLY want a sumo magazine.

I still think organizing some kind of campaign 
asking Yomiuri or NHK to put out an English 
magazine would be a good idea.  But there is a 
problem of demonstrating the target market.  We 
could show them how many members the list has, 
but I doubt Clyde would let us have a copy of 
the subscribers' list to Sumo World, which would 
really make our case.  In any event, having only 
one place to go for English language info is not 
ideal.  Even if Yomiuri or NHK did agree to put 
out a magazine, I don't think anything would be 
lost by having a website as well.  A website can 
do things a magazine can't and vice-versa.  

>>1- making such a web site, or web-zine, will 
make it necessary to create a
>>kind "sumo writers for the web site mailing 
list". I'm new in the sumo ML,
>>but I love all the informations I receive 
through it. And I fear that creating
>>such a "second mailing list" will stop a lot 
of informations from being but
>>on the sumo ML. OK, everybody will still 
receive them on the new web site,
>>but I think that really wouldn't be the same 
than the ML...

> I don't think it would stop anything. What 
> such a sumo web-zine would primarily do is to 
> at one place collect interesting info that, 
> possibly most of it, already have been sent to 
> the ML. This does not lessen the value of the 
> ML, but would also enable people NOT on the ML 
> to take part of this information. The people 
> who provide this info would hardly stop 
> getting it to the Sumo ML, if they still 
> collected it at all.

I agree with all Stefan wrote and add this: as I 
see it, the seperate list would contain NO sumo 
information.  It would basically be messages 
like, "Stefan, I need you to fact-check my 
article by such-and-such date," and "Moti, how 
about doing a showcase of the young European 
rikishi in the lower ranks for your next 
column?"  Purely planning messages and notes 
that would clutter up the main ML.  And it 
wouldn't be exclusive, either.  Anyone who 
wanted to "listen in" as it were would be 
welcome to, although I don't think the other ML 
would have any interesting info...

>>2- doing a web site (or a webzine) will 
necessite us to choose what will be
>>put in it... I think we don't all want the 
same kind of informations about
>>sumo. And I don't want us to start arguing 
against each others about what
>>should be put in the web site, or what sould 
be written BIG or small, etc. I
>>really fear that doing this will only make us 
argue against each others...

> I agree with Josh that this kind of 
> discussions should rather be held on a
> seperate mailing list, since it's part of 
> the "behind-the-scenes" of such a web 
> magazine. But this is of course ALWAYS a 
> problem. I can't see it should prevent us from 
> trying though.

I foresee little argument.  As a web-based 
entity, one of the advantages is that there will 
be little need for editorial restrictions.  For 
the most part, those writing columns will have 
independence with regards to their subjects.  
Contributions can be freely accepted without 
worry for magazine size or space.  Really the 
only restrictions I can imagine would be on 
content.  Only articles that were not reasonably 
on topic would be rejected.  

As for details, well, as the person attempting 
to set things in motion, I've more or less taken 
up the mantle of Editor-in-Chief.  Which means 
ultimate decision making, and thus 
responsibility would come through me.  I think 
Jezz Sterling's work running the Bench Sumo game 
would be an excellent guide.  When an argument 
comes up on Bench Sumo, Jezz listens to all the 
sides, weighs heavily the opinions of those who 
have special knowledge (in the realm of 
automation and technology, for example) and then 
he makes his decision.  Really, it's the 
smoothness with which Bench Sumo runs that made 
me think that we could really do this.  A great 
number of people collaborate on Bench Sumo with 
no problem.

>>3- imagine we don't like the web site (or the 
webzine)... Do we really want
>>us to start talking of "the people doing the 
site" the way we talked about
>>Clyde for the last week ? I surely don't want 
it. But I fear this will probably
>>be the case, one day or another...

> But this is not only to the bad. One of the 
> greatest irritation people have had with Clyde 
> is that he doesn't answer e-mail, and doesn't 
> seem to hear critique at all. With people on 
> the mailing list responsible, that problem
> should more or less disappear, since most 
> mailing list participants should be ready to 
> discuss critique against their work (well, 
> hopefully at least...). This discussion is 
> PART of possible success for the format, and
> not something working against it.

Again, I agree with Stefan.  In terms of 
feedback and criticism, I'd like to keep in mind 
Michael Westbay's www.japanesebaseball.com 
website.  Michael's idea was to create an 
English language information and news 
clearinghouse for Japanese Baseball.  The site 
is moderated, but allows for anyone who agrees 
or disagrees with an article on the site to give 
the author immediate feedback.  This mailing 
list already takes care of that function.  Any 
contributors would be hoping for feedback, and 
this would be the perfect place to do it.

I'll be honest.  Probably the main reason I'm 
pushing this is because I write too much. :-)  
I've always read Japanese sumo magazines rather 
than English ones, so I don't necessarily need 
an English language alternative to Sumo World.  
But, I tend to write looooong messages, and I 
think it'd probably be better to put those in 
article form on a website rather than drop 180-
line messages into everyone's Inbox! :-)

Sumo World has co-existed with this ML for quite 
some time, and both have benefitted from it: 
Sumo World got free word of mouth and thus won 
subscribers.  Sumo World provided a lot of 
langauge for English speaking sumo fans, and 
thus contributed to the health of this ML.  Any 
website/webzine would strive for a similar 
symbiosis.  It would be there only to supplement 
the list, not take from it.

Take care,
Josh Reyer

If a first you don't know what to do... henka
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