Re: Question: Within rules to grab back vertical part of mawashi?

["Nashinokawa" <nashinokawa@parbrook.free-online.co.uk>]

> Now, did I hallucinate (Is my flu *that* bad?) or was it just an error
from
> the gyoji and shimpans or isn't grabbing this part of mawashi forbidden
> after all? I've lived months under the impression that grabbing the front
> vertical part of mawashi automatically leads to a loss by hansoku and the
> grabbing of the back vertical part is forbidden as well but leads to a
loss
> only if the offending rikishi doesn't release his grip immediately after
> gyoji's order to do so. In this bout I think that gyoji wasn't placed well
> enough to see this grip. Anyway, I feel that shimpan should have seen what
> happened and called for a mono-ii.


You did not hallucinate.

If my memory serves me right it is allowed for professional rikishi.

I cannot believe that the gyoji could order a rikishi to change a grip as to
do so would involve the stopping of the bout.  If the bout is stopped the
rikishi should not move, unless permitted/requested to do so and are put
back in the same position as before the stoppage if movement is required (or
normal as in the mizu-iri (or water break)).

Stopping a bout and allowing a partial change in grip position would
unfairly advantage or disadvantage one of the rikishi artificially.  The
only time rikishi do not restart in exactly the same position (to the best
of the Gyoji's ability...) is after a second mizu-iri when the rikishi have
a rematch from the tachi-ai. Only if the rematch is also deadlocked is a
draw possible. (Apart from an injury preventing a rematch when the shimpanin
declare that the original bout was too close to call).  Since following sumo
I remember only two mizu-iri bouts, and both of those were resolved before a
restart was called.  Given the "balls-up" made by the present
Shikimori-inosuke was the first mizu-iri in about 20++ years it must be a
very long time since a match went to a restart.

On the original point, there are a number of actions that, while permitted
for the pro's are not permitted at certain levels of amateur sumo (there are
differences here to between what is allowed for adults and kids I believe).
Grabbing the vertical back of the mawashi is one such action.  The most well
known is that haraite (slapping your opponent about on the face) is not
permitted in amateur competition.

Cheers

Peter

PS On the recent oyakata issue, Kitanoumi and Taiho were given special
status due to their rikishi record (Chiyonofuji was offered it but
declined). Their "life" stocks are in excess of the normal quota.  The
advantage of a life stock is unclear now, as shortly an oyakata will be
permitted only to own/control one stock at a time, meaning holding a second
to rent out is forbidden.  This would effectively mean that someone like
Taiho would not have a stock to easily pass on to a favoured deshi (or
son-in-law) thus having less control over his stables destiny on retirement
as I understand the rules.

However I am sure that these rules will be bent soon with retiring rikishi
"purchasing" a stock on the tacit understanding that it is sold to the
rikishi who really controls it on his own retirement.....